Author Topic: Wingnut wish  (Read 6615 times)

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Offline shester

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2008, 12:35:10 PM »
I was afraid you were going to ask that!  :laugh: 

Actually, thinking these things through WITH a reason for my decision has been interesting.  Usually I just work through the story in my head, and decide "Oh, yeah, that way sounds much better", and that's the end of the thought process. 

I'm not going to give away any huge scenes from the story.  I'm going to use spoiler tags just in case someone doesn't want to read even some hints about the plot.  ;) 

(click to show/hide)
 

 

That makes sense.  I so often wondered why Aeryn couldn't see that something had happened to John while they were apart.  Alien aside, I think she knows him enough to want to know what happened.  He asked her what she did on her "vacation" she never asked him.  Okay you know me and probably aren't surprised when I say that I always figured she was too caught up in herself to really consider that anything could have happened to him.  She was so busy keeping secrets from him that she didn't notice the subtle things like keeping himself encased in leather and not being as animated as he usually was.    Little things that she should have noticed.  Or maybe it is just me reading something into it that is not there.   Getting her story straight was always clear to me.  He wanted to make sure she was there for Him not TJ, that she wasn't going to run away like she always did when the emotional things start coming.

But this idea of yours sounds good.

(click to show/hide)


Sybil



Earth.  Terra Firma.  Seems forever it's filled my thoughts, been my goal.  And now...I'm here.
John Crichton-Terra Firma

Offline shester

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2008, 12:36:31 PM »
There's another possible explanation, and that is that I am full of dren. 

 :laugh:  We are all full of that. :razz:

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I say that because I was just thinking about this story while I was in the shower (my brain seems to work most creatively when I'm in the shower), and the story was coming out in John's POV, 2nd person. 

I think the real answer is that I don't know what I'm talking about, and we're all going to have to wait to see what the Youses Muses Gang decides is best for this story.  :laugh:



You could always write it from both POVs.  Aeryn trying to find out and John trying to keep it hidden. ;D

Sybil



Earth.  Terra Firma.  Seems forever it's filled my thoughts, been my goal.  And now...I'm here.
John Crichton-Terra Firma

Offline KernilCrash

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2008, 03:59:12 PM »
You could always write it from both POVs.  Aeryn trying to find out and John trying to keep it hidden. ;D

Sybil

I've considered that, but I would probably do it by switching back and forth, and that's a technique I'm no longer comfortable using.  I used to do it a lot.  Now I prefer to settle down into one POV for at least a chapter.

We'll see.  It's really up to the Youses Muses Gang.  ;)
Happiness is not a destination.  It is a method of life. -- Burton Hills
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass.  It's about learning to dance in the rain. -- Vivian Greene

Offline shester

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2008, 05:30:31 PM »
I've considered that, but I would probably do it by switching back and forth, and that's a technique I'm no longer comfortable using.  I used to do it a lot.  Now I prefer to settle down into one POV for at least a chapter.

We'll see.  It's really up to the Youses Muses Gang.  ;)


Is that because it is too distracting going back and forth? 

Sybil



Earth.  Terra Firma.  Seems forever it's filled my thoughts, been my goal.  And now...I'm here.
John Crichton-Terra Firma

Offline KernilCrash

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2008, 07:58:26 PM »
I think it's a little distracting for the reader.  This is really just a personal preference on my part.  There's no hard and fast rule about whether or not it should be done, not even when writing fiction for publication.  About the only "rule" is that the writer should make sure the reader makes the transition smoothly.  I just like to settle in with one person and stay there, especially in a shorter story.  I think it gives the reader (and me!) a chance to really dig in with the POV character and get carried along with whatever they are going through in the story. 

I'll certainly swap if I think it's necessary, or if the story insists.  I did that with The Changeling.  And I did something that IS frowned upon in some writerly circles, which is change tense.  I started with present tense/John's POV, and then flipped to past tense/Aeryn's POV when they got John back to Moya.  I liked it at the time because John is living very much moment to moment on the planet, with no past and no expectation of a future.  When they get him back to Moya, time resumes and John loses his sense of who he is, so the change in style seemed appropriate.  When I look back at the story, I'm fine with the shift to Aeryn's POV, but not quite as certain that the change in tenses was such a stellar idea.  ;D 

   
Happiness is not a destination.  It is a method of life. -- Burton Hills
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass.  It's about learning to dance in the rain. -- Vivian Greene

Offline shester

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2008, 09:13:03 PM »
When you write a story and have a character's POV is that because the character's reaction is more important or because that person can see what is happening to the other person better?  I am not sure that made any sense at all.  If not just ignore it.

Have you written a story with one person's POV and then the more you get into the story you realize it is someone else's POV that needs to be told?  Have you or would you change that POV?


I love the way you did the Changeling.   I had no problem following it. 

Sybil



Earth.  Terra Firma.  Seems forever it's filled my thoughts, been my goal.  And now...I'm here.
John Crichton-Terra Firma

Offline KernilCrash

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2008, 07:41:48 AM »
When you write a story and have a character's POV is that because the character's reaction is more important or because that person can see what is happening to the other person better?  I am not sure that made any sense at all.  If not just ignore it.

You made sense.  :agreed:  I wish I had a good answer for you.  :laugh:  At this point in my development as a writer, the choice of POV tends to be more intuitive than deliberately chosen.  The story comes to me, and I go wherever the Youses Muses Gang takes me. 

In a few rare cases, I have chosen the POV and "voice" because I was doing something very specific to the reader.  My best example of that is Reversal.  I was using a third person external viewpoint, and did not write it from anyone's POV because I was holding back the "reveal".  It was interesting to write because I had to stay out of both John's and Aeryn's heads or else I would have given away what was going on.  :devil:   

The other place where I had a long decision-making process about POV is the often-promised, not-yet-delivered Measure of Devotion.  In that case, I had settled down into John's POV throughout most of the early chapters, and then realized that there are some parts later in the story where I want very much to work from Aeryn's POV for both of the reasons you mentioned:  I want to let the reader know what Aeryn is thinking without using dialogue or action, and I need to have Aeryn be my 'camera' while something is going on with John.  Since I know I'm going to want to switch to Aeryn's POV later in the story, I've started swapping every couple of chapters early.  That way the reader doesn't go for 10 chapters in John's POV, and then suddenly *ZONK* wind up inside Aeryn's head.   

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Have you written a story with one person's POV and then the more you get into the story you realize it is someone else's POV that needs to be told?  Have you or would you change that POV?

<Runs off to look at a list of fics and ponder this question>

I think the answer is not really.  I've definitely had some arguments with the Youses Muses Gang about tense and voice.  Foot Falls got written and rewritten about four times before I finally settled on present tense/2nd person, but for obvious reasons, it had to be told from Aeryn's POV.  The Changeling is probably the closest I've come because of that shift in the middle from John's to Aeryn's POV, but I didn't start the second half of the story in John's POV and then have to go back and change it.  It just shifted on its own, and I had to sit and stare at it for a couple of weeks before I decided to let it stay that way. 

Good question though because until you asked, I didn't realize how many stories I've written where the POV does shift back and forth.  I'd kind of forgotten that Whispers, for very valid reasons, shifts between John and Aeryn ... and D'Argo.  I leap into D'Argo a few times, and don't give the reader much warning or help with the transition.  :laugh:  In each instance, I do it for one of the reasons you mentioned, which is to provide an external perspective of what John is going through at that particular moment.  ;D 
 
« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 07:43:17 AM by KernilCrash »
Happiness is not a destination.  It is a method of life. -- Burton Hills
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass.  It's about learning to dance in the rain. -- Vivian Greene

Offline Eirenne

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2008, 12:53:43 PM »
Having the voices in syn is a huge part of this I would imagine.  And I can honestly say Crash that you seem to have mastered all of them, in particular John and Aeryn. ;)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 12:56:05 PM by Eirenne »

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Offline KernilCrash

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2008, 01:42:50 PM »
Having the voices in syn is a huge part of this I would imagine.  And I can honestly say Crash that you seem to have mastered all of them, in particular John and Aeryn. ;)

Thank you.  :-[  There are a few that I can't do.  I have to be very careful with D'Argo (the Big D), or else he comes out sounding like Lt. Worf; and you will notice that I don't try Noranti, Sikozu, or Jool very often.  Aeryn took a lot of practice.  My early attempts at making her sound curt or unhappy ended up sounding just plain old PMS-style bitchy.  :laugh:
Happiness is not a destination.  It is a method of life. -- Burton Hills
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass.  It's about learning to dance in the rain. -- Vivian Greene

Offline Domino

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2008, 02:50:37 AM »
Crash, I simply adore this fic!

But then, I usually adore your fics.  Always well written and a helluva ride!

Well done Chica! :clap2:  You rock!!
Ben/John/Cam are sex in leather.

I love the pairing of Cam Mitchell and John Sheppard.

Offline Iscascaper

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2008, 07:23:42 AM »
Hello, Crash.

Can't wait for this promised fic!

While I'm here, in the "Wingnut Wish" section, could I just put in a request for a Wingnut for "The Changeling".  I find this a much more painful fic to read than "Whispers" (althought that still gets me  :'( every time I read it!) - I think because of the absolute dejection John is going through while he still thnks his family has died.  How did you get him to plumb the depths like that?  The absolute breakdown of all his morals? 

By the way, I loooove the cleanup session in "The Chrysalis"!  :devil:

Isca.

Offline KernilCrash

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2008, 09:07:14 AM »
I'd love to do a Wingnut for The Changeling.  :veryhappy:  Thank you for the request. 

Any other questions before I break open the site software and start thinking about writing that one?  ;D
Happiness is not a destination.  It is a method of life. -- Burton Hills
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass.  It's about learning to dance in the rain. -- Vivian Greene

Offline shester

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2008, 09:15:46 AM »
Me too.  I would love to know all the how's and why's of that story.

Patiently waiting.   ;D

Sybil



Earth.  Terra Firma.  Seems forever it's filled my thoughts, been my goal.  And now...I'm here.
John Crichton-Terra Firma

Offline Iscascaper

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2008, 07:35:33 AM »
Wow - thanks, Crash - what service!

Can't think of any more questions at the moment.  There's nothing for it - I'll have to read it again!  (Which means I will then have to reread "The Chrysalis" - I don't know - such hardship!).

Do you also have any more wingnuts for CONT - the last one I have is Chapter 12.  I love that extended scene - do you have any plans on incorporating that into the Editors Cut version now?  (because I think it really adds to it).

And keep writing the new NC17 story!

Sorry - I'm not really hard to please (I must have been a slave-driver in a previous life!).

Isca.

Offline KernilCrash

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2008, 09:06:05 AM »
Wow - thanks, Crash - what service!

Sometimes I need a kick in the butt to draw my attention back to the fun and important stuff in life.  ;D  So requests like this are VERY much appreciated.

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There's nothing for it - I'll have to read it again!  (Which means I will then have to reread "The Chrysalis" - I don't know - such hardship!).

Gee ... :cheeky: ... I'm so sorry. 

:naughty:

I got the wingnut started last night.  Unfortunately, I was also dealing with a major computer disaster (one of my computers, named Moya, is currently capable of nothing more intelligent than serving as a doorstop :hair: ), so I didn't get very far.  I plan to do a Wingnut for The Chrysalis as well.  They're a matched set, after all.  ;D  Feel free to take a peek as I work on it, and to add questions, if anything springs to mind.  Just remember that it's a work in progress, so sometimes you may stumble into a bit of a mess where I stopped mid-edit and sentences don't even make sense.  It's here:  The Changeling Wingnut.

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Do you also have any more wingnuts for CONT - the last one I have is Chapter 12.
 

Not really.  I put together the ones that I did because I had the extra bits available, and I haven't added anything new beyond Chapter 12.  If I come up with some blinding insight about the rest of the story, I'll add something, of course. 

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I love that extended scene - do you have any plans on incorporating that into the Editors Cut version now?  (because I think it really adds to it).

I've looked at doing that several times, including right now, and I'm going to leave it in the Wingnuts as kind of an Easter Egg.  Aside from anything else, if I put it in the text, I'd wind up deleting the Wingnut.  I like it as a "prize" for anyone who manages to wade through the rest of my ramblings.  ;)

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And keep writing the new NC17 story!  Sorry - I'm not really hard to please (I must have been a slave-driver in a previous life!).

That's not slave driving, that's encouragement.  Tough job, too.  Writing an NC-17 John and Aeryn smutfic.  Oh, the trials I have to endure. 

:melting:

:wave:
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 09:24:39 AM by KernilCrash »
Happiness is not a destination.  It is a method of life. -- Burton Hills
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass.  It's about learning to dance in the rain. -- Vivian Greene

Offline Iscascaper

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2008, 07:46:26 AM »
Many thanks for such a detailed reply to my (many) questions.

I'm afraid I haven't got around to rereading TC & TC again yet as I'm currently in the middle of rereading Little Acorns by feldman, but I promise you they are next on my list.

I'm afraid I can't get your link (?) to The Changeling wingnut to work.  Is it a link, or should I be looking somewhere else?

I see what you mean about the COTN (got the letters the right way around this time!) - it is nice coming across the extended scene.  But no "wading" necessary - when I'm reading one of your stories it's exceedingly hard to put down and attend to real life!

Thanks,
Isca.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 07:50:14 AM by Iscascaper »

Offline KernilCrash

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2008, 09:31:22 AM »
I'm afraid I can't get your link (?) to The Changeling wingnut to work.  Is it a link, or should I be looking somewhere else?

I fixed it.  Thanks for mentioning it.  I botched the link tags.  :doh:

Happiness is not a destination.  It is a method of life. -- Burton Hills
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass.  It's about learning to dance in the rain. -- Vivian Greene

Offline Iscascaper

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2008, 12:37:47 PM »
Crash - just read the Wingnut - wonderful!

Many thanks for that!  I bow before anyone who can write (seriously - because I really, really cannot!), but I particularly love your stories.  Sorry - am I gushing?

It's fascinating reading about how you came to the decisions concerning the story, and very interesting to read how a beta-reader can add so much to an author's story with just a few suggestions.

No - it's no good - I'll just have to put Little Acorns aside for a little while ...  I need some John-cleaning!

Offline shester

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2008, 04:55:36 PM »
Thanks so much Crash.  God I love reading how a story comes to life.  And it is nice to know that it can be a struggle and everything doesn't just write itself.   I would love to be able to write but it is just not a talent that I have.  That is why I am so curious as to how you go about writing your stories.  There is so much life and energy in the things you write.   The way you use words just makes me envious of your talent.

Looking forward to the wingnut for The Chrysalis.

Sybil



Earth.  Terra Firma.  Seems forever it's filled my thoughts, been my goal.  And now...I'm here.
John Crichton-Terra Firma

Offline Nette

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Re: Wingnut wish
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2008, 07:41:52 AM »
Shame on me for not visiting your site in a while but when I finally got over here I just happened upon your wingnut thread. Have just read your story development for The Changeling.  What a fascinating process you go through to get to your end result.  I haven't had a chance to read this story yet but having visited the wingnut page I will remedy that very soon. As a fan of your writing I am looking forward to reading another one of your creations.

I must venture into some more of this site to see what other treasures can be found.


Nette