Wingnut wish

[PKLibrarian]

Good morning!

I start with something easy.

As you know I adore "Child of the Night" and the idea of unity between John and Aeryn.

So please, tell me, what gave you the idea to torture John to such a degree, bring him to New Delvia, all the ideas about the pool and so?

PKL

[KernilCrash]

Oh!  A simple request!!



I'll get right on it. 

[UTChick]

Oh!  A simple request!!



I'll get right on it. 

Oh goodie!!  I can't wait for the reply!!   Mind you - I do like that question  - so an answer would really be quite interesting to read.

[shester]

Oh goodie!!  I can't wait for the reply!!   Mind you - I do like that question  - so an answer would really be quite interesting to read.

Anything about Child of the Night will interest me.  It is my favorite as you know.

Sybil

[Eirenne]

Looking forward to hearing your response Crash...

I have a question....what motivated you to write Footfalls (that is the name of the fic if I recall....)?

[KernilCrash]

It all started with a Starburst Challenge.   

The challenge was that someone in the story had to express gratitude to someone else in some form.  My brain went a little overboard with the idea, and I started with the concept that pretty much everyone in the story would be expressing gratitude to someone else.  Then I got the idea of Aeryn expressing gratitude to Scorpius of all people (where that one came from, I have no idea at all ... it just arrived ).  Scorpius got changed to Braca because I had begun thinking about him taking refuge aboard Moya, and that had already been done in canon.  And then everything else grew out of that. 

I began to feel like I had something out of the ordinary when the story kept insisting on being written in 2nd person.  I actually went through and changed about 75% of it to 3rd person, and it lost the "immediacy" that you get by being in Aeryn's boots.  As soon as I began shifting it back, I knew it was the right choice, and also began to feel like I could get the reader right inside Aeryn's head and heart.  It was at that point that I shifted from more straightforward storytelling to working on taking the reader into the midst of the fatigue, the fear, and that dreamlike, not quite nightmarish feeling we often get when we're waiting to find out how something critical (life and death) is going to turn out. 

[shester]

When you wrote Child of the Night, Aeryn and John were back together.  How did you see that happening or did you just say to yourself "they are back together now on with the story?" or did you have something in mind?  I often wondered how you saw them getting back together and then John gets captured and on with the story.

Hope that made sense.

Sybil

[KernilCrash]

It was "they're together ... on with the story".   

When I wrote CoTN, I originally had no intention of posting it.  It was my story, written entirely for me, so I pretty thoroughly ignored canon and time frames.  Even in my own mind, I don't have it fitting in anywhere within canon.  I began writing it during a hiatus toward the end of Season 3, hoping that it might, out of pure luck, fit in somewhere in early Season 4.  Then they had Jool leave, and Aeryn didn't return right away, and ... all my guesses about where the show might take us got blown out of the water.   

I'm not sure I ever would have posted it if Farscape hadn't gotten cancelled.  As a result of the cancellation and the focus on the campaign through the second half of Season 4, a lot of the writers' muses went on vacation ... mine included.  But then I had this huge novel-length fic sitting on my hard drive, and I figured I might be able to clean it up, improve the focus on the plot (the original version wandered all over the place because I wasn't worried about getting to the end of the story), add in some action (the original version did not have John's ride on the DRDs or the bounty hunters), and turn it into a story that people would want to read.

Imagine that!    Something people would want to read. 

One of the most important lessons I learned as a result of writing CoTN was that I should write the story for ME.  If I'm not enjoying it, I'm not going to turn out a high quality product.  Which begs the question of how I managed to slog through writing Whispers ... which was every bit as painful to write as it is to read.  But writing Whispers was very gratifying even as I was praying for a bottle of Prozac to fall on my house; and it was very definitely post-Fractures Farscape, which meant that I loved every minute of it even if it was breaking my heart.

[shester]

I designs quilts for me too.  I have to love what I am doing or I just lose interest so I understand. 

Whispers breaks my heart and it is not one I can read very often.  Just like watching Fractures through DWTB.  I have to force myself to watch them because John's pain is just too hard for me to watch.   And in Whispers his sadness is heart breaking.  I cry every time I read it because you don't have a happy ending.  There seems to be hope in a sense but it is a long way off.  Too long for me.  There is no falling into each other's arms and all that.  Too sad...

Sybil

[Eirenne]

Thanks for your insight Crash...it's intriguing to get inside an author's head to understand what their motivation is for telling a story.  And you are definitely right that you have to write the story for you!  After all it's the voice inside you that motivates you to want to tell the story...and then the frosting on the cake is the how the reader is affected by your words...hopefully it's all good...

[PKLibrarian]

First of all 1000 THANKS  for all the wingnut-informations about Child of The Night! I enjoyed all your chapter additions so far very much! (I'll send you a more in-depth PM. )

But there's a tiny little thing that's interesting me very much: Have you written some more fics for yourself, that might be waiting to see the light of the world? 

Just in case you are wondering: I'm sure there are lots of devoted readers who'd love to read them...

PKL - hiding behind the in case Crash should send a budong

[KernilCrash]

Nope.  I do not have any completed secret stories stashed on my computer to offer you.  I have more than a dozen half-written stories, and probably another eight or so ideas that I would like very much to get written, but nothing hidden away in the same way I had Child Of The Night squirreled off in a private file.

[shester]

Have you written anything about John's rape in one of your partially written stories?  You seem to steer clear of that subject or have I missed one of your stories?  Ben did say that the rape affected how John saw the PK all the way to PKW.  I don't think it is something that John would ever tell Aeryn.  He is good at keeping the hard stuff packed away in his heart.  Aeryn knew about his father but not about his mom until season 4. 

I have read stories where John tells Aeryn and it just doesn't seem right to me.  I can't imagine him doing that but I it did change him. 

Have more to say but gotta go get ready to go to the dentist.

Sybil

[KernilCrash]

Have you written anything about John's rape in one of your partially written stories?  You seem to steer clear of that subject or have I missed one of your stories?  Ben did say that the rape affected how John saw the PK all the way to PKW.  I don't think it is something that John would ever tell Aeryn.  He is good at keeping the hard stuff packed away in his heart.  Aeryn knew about his father but not about his mom until season 4. 

I have read stories where John tells Aeryn and it just doesn't seem right to me.  I can't imagine him doing that but I it did change him. 

Have more to say but gotta go get ready to go to the dentist.

Sybil 

Short answer:  No, I haven't.

Long answer:  I've kind of danced around the issue here and there.  I was able to tackle it outright in Cholak's Demon because I went AU and Aeryn actually saw it, so John couldn't keep it a secret.  I envision some of John's rage in Inferno being generated by the rape.  It doesn't matter that he's beating Scorpius; he's letting out every bit of anger and hurt that he has suffered at the hands of the Peacekeepers.  And I played with some foreshadowing in Indoctrination. 

I think part of the reason I've stayed away from the issue is because I'm always aware that the creators/writers were a bit shocked at the fan reaction over those scenes.  From Grayza's point of view, this was not rape.  The Peacekeepers are so pragmatic about "reducing fluid levels", and so emotionally detached from the concept that recreating might have something to do with love and passion, that I can see how they would not consider this rape.  I don't agree with it!!      What it does is terminally confuses how I want to handle the entire issue. 

I agree with you concerning whether John would willingly tell Aeryn.  My vision of how he would handle that shows up in Inferno, and I think it is probably in line with what you are saying.  He desperately wants Aeryn with him for support when he talks to the Eidelons, and can't stand the idea of having to say certain things in front of her.  I think he will have to include the rape in his explanation in order to make them understand his level of rage, and I think if Aeryn is listening that he would stop short and possibly wind up in a mess because he hasn't explained everything.  I could see the Eidelons deciding he really is criminally insane, things going very 'pear-shaped', and then in a fast, frustrated, desperate effort to resolve the situation, John finally blurting it all out. 

Unfortunately, I'm never going to write that one. 

           I'm not coming out until all those people put down those frying pans!!!
           /
 

Instead, you've given me a highly energetic plot bunny.  I'll just add it to the heap of "to be written" stories. 

[ixchup]

It was "they're together ... on with the story".   

When I wrote CoTN, I originally had no intention of posting it.  It was my story, written entirely for me, so I pretty thoroughly ignored canon and time frames.  Even in my own mind, I don't have it fitting in anywhere within canon.  I began writing it during a hiatus toward the end of Season 3, hoping that it might, out of pure luck, fit in somewhere in early Season 4.  Then they had Jool leave, and Aeryn didn't return right away, and ... all my guesses about where the show might take us got blown out of the water.   

I'm not sure I ever would have posted it if Farscape hadn't gotten cancelled.  As a result of the cancellation and the focus on the campaign through the second half of Season 4, a lot of the writers' muses went on vacation ... mine included.  But then I had this huge novel-length fic sitting on my hard drive, and I figured I might be able to clean it up, improve the focus on the plot (the original version wandered all over the place because I wasn't worried about getting to the end of the story), add in some action (the original version did not have John's ride on the DRDs or the bounty hunters), and turn it into a story that people would want to read.

Imagine that!    Something people would want to read. 

One of the most important lessons I learned as a result of writing CoTN was that I should write the story for ME.  If I'm not enjoying it, I'm not going to turn out a high quality product.  Which begs the question of how I managed to slog through writing Whispers ... which was every bit as painful to write as it is to read.  But writing Whispers was very gratifying even as I was praying for a bottle of Prozac to fall on my house; and it was very definitely post-Fractures Farscape, which meant that I loved every minute of it even if it was breaking my heart.

Hi Beth,

I'm so glad you opened this forum so we could peer into your mind...   :shocked:

I agree with Sybil that Whispers is difficult to read over and over again the way I always come back to Night Watch (I'm a sucker for hurt/comfort and in that one you hurt everyone!). Yet, there is something about Whispers and the character of the old priest (his name escapes me) who was helping John deal with his ability to read minds that is so haunting to me. I knew the blow back if you kill a member of a mind-linked society should have killed John and yet John gamely tries to solve the mystery that needs solving while trying to deal with Aeryn's grief. Your ability to delve into that world and build such an alien environment so that I could visualize the artificial environment, the aliens, and what was going on between John and Aeryn through the story of the old alien makes Whispers my favorite story outside of Child of the Night.

I also want to say that if you don't create for yourself and trust your own instincts, then the quality of the stories won't feel right to you. I draw for myself and sometimes I create something I want to show someone. I think your writing has grown so much between Yeti and Changeling and your later pieces (Footfalls is amazing) because I sense you write now what pleases you. I adore the story where we think John is insane (I can't spell the type of insanity but he hears voices that compel to kill--he thinks).

I wanted to especially thank you for sharing the wingnuts for Child of the Night and the fact that I think I bugged you and pleaded with you to publish "the director's cut" because I felt there were pieces missing from the story. Your further smoothing, especially Chapter 12 (which should be "blessed" and moved into the published version because it adds so much about the state of John's fears, inability to remember, and express himself--the psychology of the detestation) is so good. I think, as an editor, I suspected that you would work out the kinks in the story over time. Thank you for sharing the edits you made. And I think Aeryn would have not run back to John either--once she steels herself, she is a soldier or she'll fall apart because her emotional capacity is a child's. Your edited version is more true to the character.

Thanks again for this forum. 

[KernilCrash]

I'm so glad you opened this forum so we could peer into your mind...   :shocked:

Okay, there's a truly scary thought!! 

Thanks again for this forum. 

Thank you for stopping in!    I'm much more willing to rattle on at length about my fics here than I am at Terra Firma.  Don't ask me why, please.  It has something to do with propriety and this being my forum, as opposed to blathering at length at an open forum.    Just the way my brain works. 

[shester]

Short answer:  No, I haven't.

Long answer:  I've kind of danced around the issue here and there.  I was able to tackle it outright in Cholak's Demon because I went AU and Aeryn actually saw it, so John couldn't keep it a secret.  I envision some of John's rage in Inferno being generated by the rape.  It doesn't matter that he's beating Scorpius; he's letting out every bit of anger and hurt that he has suffered at the hands of the Peacekeepers.  And I played with some foreshadowing in Indoctrination. 

I read Cholak's Demon.  I think the beating of Scorpius in Inferno is probably his rage against everything he has had to endure in the UT and doesn't want it to touch his children.  Can't say as I blame him.  Too bad the PK couldn't have tried to negotiate with him about the wormhole knowledge instead of torturing him for it.

I think part of the reason I've stayed away from the issue is because I'm always aware that the creators/writers were a bit shocked at the fan reaction over those scenes.  From Grayza's point of view, this was not rape.  The Peacekeepers are so pragmatic about "reducing fluid levels", and so emotionally detached from the concept that recreating might have something to do with love and passion, that I can see how they would not consider this rape.  I don't agree with it!!      What it does is terminally confuses how I want to handle the entire issue. 

That surprises me.  When someone takes your control and away and makes you have sex with them that is rape.  What else could it be?  And to me Grayza knew it.  Especially when you get to WSS and she recognizes when John says rape that he is talking from his experience with her.  Ben considered it rape and rightly so.

I agree with you concerning whether John would willingly tell Aeryn.  My vision of how he would handle that shows up in Inferno, and I think it is probably in line with what you are saying.  He desperately wants Aeryn with him for support when he talks to the Eidelons, and can't stand the idea of having to say certain things in front of her.  I think he will have to include the rape in his explanation in order to make them understand his level of rage, and I think if Aeryn is listening that he would stop short and possibly wind up in a mess because he hasn't explained everything.  I could see the Eidelons deciding he really is criminally insane, things going very 'pear-shaped', and then in a fast, frustrated, desperate effort to resolve the situation, John finally blurting it all out. 

Unfortunately, I'm never going to write that one. 

           I'm not coming out until all those people put down those frying pans!!!
           /
 

Instead, you've given me a highly energetic plot bunny.  I'll just add it to the heap of "to be written" stories. 

Frying pan is down (although it is hidden behind my back)

I guess for me I just haven't read a story that satisfies my need to have this resolved.  Some of that have tackled it didn't really do it to my satisfaction.  And we know it is all about me.    I am not sure how a man handles this type of thing.  I know it does have a tremendous effect on them as Ben says it does on John.  I think it would have to be researched before you could just write it.   Men would not have the same reaction as a woman would. 

Well, if you do decide to tackle this subject I will definitely be curious as to how you go about it.

Sybil

[KernilCrash]

That surprises me.  When someone takes your control and away and makes you have sex with them that is rape.  What else could it be?  And to me Grayza knew it.  Especially when you get to WSS and she recognizes when John says rape that he is talking from his experience with her.  Ben considered it rape and rightly so.

I agree with you completely ... from our Earth-based perspective.  I'm just not 100% certain that the Peacekeepers would view it the same.  I do remember hearing that the writers/producers were shocked by the fan reaction.  They intended it to be Grayza using her sexuality as an available weapon, just as the Peacekeepers would use any other object they could lay their hands on as a weapon.  I think that somewhere between WWL and WSS, they shifted their interpretation a bit.  But that's just personal theory.    I touched on how I think Peacekeepers view sex, and foreshadowed the rape just a bit in Indoctrination.   

I guess for me I just haven't read a story that satisfies my need to have this resolved.  Some of that have tackled it didn't really do it to my satisfaction.  And we know it is all about me.    I am not sure how a man handles this type of thing.  I know it does have a tremendous effect on them as Ben says it does on John.  I think it would have to be researched before you could just write it.   Men would not have the same reaction as a woman would.

 

I received a very nice, well written criticque of how I handled the aftermath of John's rape in Cholak's Demon, and the person who wrote me (male) explained that I had gotten it wrong.  Men don't shower compulsively the way women do, and they don't blurt the word 'rape' out.  They get angry.  Almost insanely angry.  That sort of debasement attacks them on a very fundamental level that is tied up with hierarchies (pick a hierarchy, any hierarchy), a man's sense of control, and the testosterone driven need to conquer.  When a man is raped, he is forced into a situation the defies all of his most basic needs, and the reaction tends to be pretty primordial.  Anger.  I'm sure there's depression and a few dozen other symptoms, but the most common outward sign of what's going on inside is rage.

This is a one-paragraph generalization, of course, which means it's a gross generalization.  There are as many reactions and ways of dealing with rape as there are people who have been raped. 

Well, if you do decide to tackle this subject I will definitely be curious as to how you go about it.

It's in line.  I've got the gist written down so I don't forget, and this plot bunny is waiting patiently in line, chewing lettuce leaves. 

[Iscascaper]

Quote: "It's in line.  I've got the gist written down so I don't forget, and this plot bunny is waiting patiently in line, chewing lettuce leaves". 

Crash - woud carrots help?  I can send carrots!  I, too, would love to read a fic along these lines.
 

Isca.

[KernilCrash]

Crash - woud carrots help?  I can send carrots!  I, too, would love to read a fic along these lines.

  No, but thank you for the offer.  I've actually been working on this story inside my head.  I know that doesn't help you very much, but that's where the work starts.  I'm hearing about three different versions of it, and I need to decide which one is going to work best. 

One version is from Aeryn's POV, written in 2nd person.  That is exactly how Foot Falls is presented.  The second version is also from Aeryn's POV, but in more standard 3rd person.  The third version would be from John's POV, and also 'wants' to be written in 3rd person. 

I think the first option would be devastating, but would also pull the reader very much inside Aeryn's head, and would sacrifice the impact of what John is going through.  It's also an unusual 'voice', and I don't want to use it too often. 

So that leaves the decision as to whether to do it from John's POV, or Aeryn's.  Obviously I haven't made up my mind yet.   

That's what mowing lawns is for.  All that mindless drudgery leads to cogitating on fics. 

  Speaking of which ... the back yard still needs to be mowed. 

[shester]

  No, but thank you for the offer.  I've actually been working on this story inside my head.  I know that doesn't help you very much, but that's where the work starts.  I'm hearing about three different versions of it, and I need to d

I think the first option would be devastating, but would also pull the reader very much inside Aeryn's head, and would sacrifice the impact of what John is going through.  It's also an unusual 'voice', and I don't want to use it too often. 

So that leaves the decision as to whether to do it from John's POV, or Aeryn's.  Obviously I haven't made up my mind yet.   

That's what mowing lawns is for.  All that mindless drudgery leads to cogitating on fics. 

  Speaking of which ... the back yard still needs to be mowed. 

I hope you don't sacrifice what John has gone through.  Whether it is from Aeryn's pov or John's the impact of what he has and is going through should not be sacrificed or lessened.

Now get that yard mowed. 

Sybil

[KernilCrash]

I hope you don't sacrifice what John has gone through.  Whether it is from Aeryn's pov or John's the impact of what he has and is going through should not be sacrificed or lessened.

Oh, I agree with you 100%.    That's why I won't use the Aeryn POV/2nd person.  It would take the reader too far away from what John is going through, which would sabotage the entire purpose behind writing the story. 

The lawn is mowed and I am now about 99% sure that the story will be written from Aeryn's POV. 

[shester]

Oh, I agree with you 100%.    That's why I won't use the Aeryn POV/2nd person.  It would take the reader too far away from what John is going through, which would sabotage the entire purpose behind writing the story. 

The lawn is mowed and I am now about 99% sure that the story will be written from Aeryn's POV. 

 Just curious.     Why do you think this will be best from Aeryn's point of view?  I am terribly nosy about these kinds of things.   

Sybil

[KernilCrash]

I was afraid you were going to ask that!   

Actually, thinking these things through WITH a reason for my decision has been interesting.  Usually I just work through the story in my head, and decide "Oh, yeah, that way sounds much better", and that's the end of the thought process. 

I'm not going to give away any huge scenes from the story.  I'm going to use spoiler tags just in case someone doesn't want to read even some hints about the plot.   

(click to show/hide)

The reason I'm going to go with Aeryn's POV is because I think what is going to make this story heartwrenching is going to be watching John attempt to keep the secret and remaining in denial about what happened, and I think that's going to work best if we (the reader) is not inside his head.  Basically, I'm going to write a detective/mystery story with Aeryn as the detective.  If we become Aeryn for a little bit, we are right there with her -- sympathetic, loving, caring about John, and puzzled by his behavior when he seems to become even more irrational than usual -- as she attempts to solve the mystery.  John already has all the answers.  In a Who-Done-It, he would actually be the culprit, being pursued by the 'good guys'.  So if the story is written from his POV, all we would see are his emotions, and probably an increasing level of panic, as he tries to prevent Aeryn from learning what happened on Arnessk. 

Boil it down though, and what you have is the very basic, classic rule of "show" the story, don't "tell" it, and I think I can "show" John's reactions better if they are seen through the eyes of someone who loves him.

 

 

[KernilCrash]

There's another possible explanation, and that is that I am full of dren. 

I say that because I was just thinking about this story while I was in the shower (my brain seems to work most creatively when I'm in the shower), and the story was coming out in John's POV, 2nd person. 

I think the real answer is that I don't know what I'm talking about, and we're all going to have to wait to see what the Youses Muses Gang decides is best for this story.